[Stackless] is there any detail about eve's stacklessio technology?

OvermindDL1 overminddl1 at gmail.com
Mon Jul 16 05:26:03 CEST 2012


On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 8:59 PM, chenmin7249 <chenmin7249 at 163.com> wrote:

> AFAIK, erlang achieved true parallel computing which scales very well both horizontally
> and vertically, actually unless python removes gil, in a predictable
> time, python is no match for erlang in true huge parallel computing area.
>
> but erlang syntax is just ... too weird, and python fits well in
> small-medium parallel/event triggered system, and inter-process
> communication would cost much less than moving from python to erlang, i
> think that's why python/stackless fit almost all general purpose projects
>

Well to be clear, Erlang is mostly a VM, like Java, the Erlang language is
just one of many languages built on the VM, and they all interoperate very
well, just like the variety of languages built on the JVM.  There are many
styles, the default Erlang Prolog-like one, one that is a lot of like
python/ruby, one that is like Lisp, and a dozen or so little others.
Erlang does not espouse its language, which is indeed odd (though I have
come to love it), but rather it espouses its system, the VM, the
integration with basically any other language out, the reliability, etc...
I do use Python quite well with my Erlang system as ports (in erlang
terminology, a secondary running process that communicates over pipes,
there are many other methods, including C integration for in-VM running
code).  Erlang does have a rather *huge* startup cost, in code terms, as a
basic 'hello world' project is not one line of code (if done properly), but
rather a created application with supervisors to manage everything and so
forth, very stable and powerful when up, and once the cost is done then it
is done, but it is certainly not initially simple.



>
>
> At 2012-07-14 03:58:13,OvermindDL1 <overminddl1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am sending this offlist as it is not really stackless related, but feel
> free to reply on-list if you wish.
>
> I have embedded stackless into a couple of different programs of which it
> was quite a great fit for, but for servers of anything of this sort I have
> always had the base system run on Erlang.  As Erlang sounds like the exact
> fit that CCP is trying to use stackless python for, I am curious how it
> compares to how an Erlang based system would be.  Do you have any knowledge
> of the Erlang language and systems to make sure a comparison, or anything I
> could clarify about it?  I love using Python, but I have never been able to
> get the performance that I need out of it since I traditionally do
> massively parallel work and the GIL just... hurts, hence why I just use it
> as an embedded scripting language for client programs, but not for our
> server use.
>
> On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 4:10 AM, Kristján Valur Jónsson <
> kristjan at ccpgames.com> wrote:
>
>>  CarbonIO is a proprietary CCP techology.
>>
>> It is not fundamentally different from stacklessIO, just a rewrite
>> allowing us to implement low level message routing in C, thus bypassing the
>> C/python interface, the GIL and other such things, in certain areas.
>> Because of its tight integratino to EVE and our Carbon infrastructure, it
>> is unlikely to be made available.
>>
>>
>>
>> K
>>  ------------------------------
>> *Frá:* stackless-bounces at stackless.com [stackless-bounces at stackless.com]
>> fyrir hönd chenmin7249 [chenmin7249 at 163.com]
>> *Sent:* 13. júlí 2012 02:29
>>
>> *To:* The Stackless Python Mailing List
>> *Efni:* Re: [Stackless] is there any detail about eve's stacklessio
>> technology?
>>
>>   thx very much K, it's very helpful.
>> BTW, could you please provide more information on the CarbonIO
>> technology? like a http link or company name or something, i'm pretty much
>> interested, thx in adv.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  At 2012-07-09 23:02:18,"Kristján Valur Jónsson" <kristjan at ccpgames.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>  Neiter CarbonIO or StacklessIO are open source.  The latter I always
>> planned to dump out there, and I still may do so when I find the time.
>>
>> We chose windows because that was the most widely available gaming
>> platform at the time.  The client and the server use the same engine so
>> Windows it is.  In terms of performance it does not really matter what
>> operating system is running.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> K
>>  ------------------------------
>> *Frá:* stackless-bounces at stackless.com [stackless-bounces at stackless.com]
>> fyrir hönd chenmin7249 [chenmin7249 at 163.com]
>> *Sent:* 9. júlí 2012 07:17
>> *To:* The Stackless Python Mailing List
>> *Efni:* [Stackless] is there any detail about eve's stacklessio
>> technology?
>>
>>   is there any technology detail like papers, blogs about eve's
>> stacklessio technology? is it based on stackless python too like their main
>> game logic?
>> google only shows the news.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stackless mailing list
>> Stackless at stackless.com
>> http://www.stackless.com/mailman/listinfo/stackless
>>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stackless mailing list
> Stackless at stackless.com
> http://www.stackless.com/mailman/listinfo/stackless
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.stackless.com/pipermail/stackless/attachments/20120715/95d5dcf9/attachment-0001.html>


More information about the Stackless mailing list